You articulated my thoughts about this movie perfectly! I also felt like they never really went for it. We’d get a giggly scene of Romy and Samuel beginning to engage in *something* and then just slip to a sex montage. I wanted this to be a kink-positive film and instead it was just vaguely kink-suggestive. Also, Samuel gave me male manic pixie dream girl vibes and I don’t know if I liked it.
I also didn’t completely love it!!! There were moments I felt Seen, but I agree with wishing for more specificity/a deeper main character. Also the ending was uninteresting and heartbreaking imo.
I just saw this movie tonight and I feel truly bamboozled. It didn't seem like there was any negotiation of consent, boundaries, or expectations established in the relationship which caused predictable problems that never really got solved. It didn't seem like a genuine D/s dynamic at all to me; it felt like a complex case of coercion within a relationship that was already duplicitous and inappropriate. I feel truly bewildered by the reception it's getting. Samuel seemed like a dime a dozen "Dom" who doesn't actually know how to communicate but has memorized some of the right things to say, and has confused D/s for being intrusive and coercive in ways that have very real & scary consequences in the sub's life, which she didn't ask for (although she shouldn't have gotten involved with an intern, she didn't deserve to have him threatening her like that). And I dunno, I just didn't think they had good chemistry at all. So for me it goes beyond the characters lacking depth or it not being kinky enough; it was both lacking and the parts that they did show were pretty egregiously bad depictions of a D/s dynamic imho
yes!! the consent thing was actually wild. like he was shouting “you have to verbally consent” and she literally did not verbally consent and they just went ahead with it and it was supposed to be sexy enough that we just pretended the desire was assumed.
i do think it was going for D/s because harris mentioned power exchange, but im glad it never said that out loud bc it would’ve been detrimental to D/s dynamics everywhere.
That scene and the one in the car had alarm bells going off for me like crazy! Like, girl, get OUT!!! This is making me feel like I am obsessed with consent to an absurd degree but I really don't think I am?! Nonverbal consent is totally a thing and she seemed so uncomfortable to me - if my partner visibly appeared as uncomfortable and reluctant as Romy did in those moments I would absolutely back off and feel so guilty for pushing her. Ruined any of the potential eroticism for me. It's enthusiastic consent or nothing for me!
I find this so interesting because what made you believe they were trying to show a D/s dynamic? While power dynamics were at play obviously, nobody was claiming to want to be a dom or sub and I think that's why it was so murky. It felt like two people suddenly drawn to the dynamic without fully knowing much about it. Not everyone discovers kink with a playbook, or full confidence. Both of their naivity in sexual play are what made me feel comfortable and not question it as a bad d/s dynamic. He's clearly not an experienced Dom.
i learned about babygirl about 32 hours ago and immediately put it on my list. didn’t watch the trailer. then i stumble across your critique and realize Harris is in it… who i also loved from Murder at the end of the world. now i want to know your thoughts on ~that~ show and why you had to convince yourself “it was good”!
i did love that show, but ive realized it was mostly bc of the setting and bc of harris!! cant believe he brought that much life to a character named Bill 🤯
I also had higher expectations. I'm not exactly sure what they were, but I was also let down. Why did they bother to bring up Romy's childhood? Her attempts at individual therapy (clearly they didn't bother with couples therapy)? I get not wanting to pathologize "kink" as aberrant, but it just annoyed me. So many questions and other details left something to be desired. I still enjoyed it, but much like Romy, I guess I'll have to seek satisfaction elsewhere.
omg the couple’s therapy point is a good one. the more i think about it, the more i realize this was for a fairly mainstream/not with it audience! the kind who doesn’t go to couple’s therapy and doesn’t communicate in the bedroom with their HUSBANDS. i hope those folks still see this movie, it will likely be impactful there!!
Yes the therapy portions and the scenes where it is showing footage of children playing and the references to the cult made me want more context for this but then at the end when she’s speaking to her husband saying “I thought it was my childhood but it’s not”- of course kinks and sexual proclivities don’t need to directly always stem from trauma or childhood but being raised in a cult most certainly would have an affect! I was also putting on my religion (minor in college) and cult hat and it felt like the flashbacks to the children and the cults felt like a children of god cult reference which is notoriously known for being hyper sexualized and abusing children? So many questions
Personally, I loved it! I understand your frustrations but as someone who identifies entirely with the main character, it was refreshing to see my reality and so many friends realities on screen.
Obviously none of us are heads of robotic companies, but, it's more about the archetypes and plot points that I think MANY women will identify with it. Also, while I do hope to see more empowering plots of female sexuality, identifying the shame is the first step in owning your desires so for those of us that are "behind" in sexual self-discovery, I think this movie is important.
Also important to ask who is this movie for? The desired audience, I assume, is mainstream-ish. Not sure they are ready for fully empowered women's sexuality where they're being pelted by manure lol. Anyways I'm inspired to write my own review but in the meantime...
Here are some plot points that are less common in mainstream media and I believe make this movie relatable.
1. Not getting off with your partner
2. Not enjoying sex with your provider-type loving hot partner
3. Trying to ask for what you want but them not wanting to play along (her with the sheet or pillow over her head)
4. Being allured by a nonchalant dude who isn't intimidated by you
5. Being surprised by your own desire for someone and a new dynamic
6. Learning with someone about your unknown sexual needs (imperfectly)
7. Being riddled with shame, unable to articulate your sexual desires (I think seeing it on screen will help people see how not ridiculous it is)
8. Her frustration with the intern being SO comfortable also being part of the attraction (many women walk around numb, getting them to feel anything even frustration can be erotic)
9. The awkwardness of kink IRL (it's not all contracts and perfectly scripted discussions)
10. Age gap romances aren't always about exploiting the naivety of the younger person. (especially if woman is older, I think women attracted to youth is for different reason then men)
Will go write my own lengthy review now but thanks for this! I love reading opposing opinions :)
love this list and i do agree, there were a bunch of moments!! but for me they needed more continuity between them and that’s what i wanted to come from one layer deeper into her character.
also great point re: identifying the shame being an important step!! and lmaooo ok i hear you on the manure
I think this movie and More by Molly Winter actively have the same overlap, but we only get first POV in More. I felt the movie could’ve given context especially when the male lead asked if he is a good person. There was so much lift to wandering around
Totally agree… I went to Babygirl today, and I felt a mixture of Eyes Wide Shut without the occult and 91/2Weeks without food porn. But enjoyable and good acting, even if at some moments you get a few moments of boredom.
You articulated my thoughts about this movie perfectly! I also felt like they never really went for it. We’d get a giggly scene of Romy and Samuel beginning to engage in *something* and then just slip to a sex montage. I wanted this to be a kink-positive film and instead it was just vaguely kink-suggestive. Also, Samuel gave me male manic pixie dream girl vibes and I don’t know if I liked it.
omfg that’s such a good way to describe his character here. head in the clouds fs!!
I also didn’t completely love it!!! There were moments I felt Seen, but I agree with wishing for more specificity/a deeper main character. Also the ending was uninteresting and heartbreaking imo.
i needed antonio banderas and harris dickinson to kiss!!!
I thought that's where *that* scene was going and yet...
i wonder if they shot a take where it happened… need to know
I just saw this movie tonight and I feel truly bamboozled. It didn't seem like there was any negotiation of consent, boundaries, or expectations established in the relationship which caused predictable problems that never really got solved. It didn't seem like a genuine D/s dynamic at all to me; it felt like a complex case of coercion within a relationship that was already duplicitous and inappropriate. I feel truly bewildered by the reception it's getting. Samuel seemed like a dime a dozen "Dom" who doesn't actually know how to communicate but has memorized some of the right things to say, and has confused D/s for being intrusive and coercive in ways that have very real & scary consequences in the sub's life, which she didn't ask for (although she shouldn't have gotten involved with an intern, she didn't deserve to have him threatening her like that). And I dunno, I just didn't think they had good chemistry at all. So for me it goes beyond the characters lacking depth or it not being kinky enough; it was both lacking and the parts that they did show were pretty egregiously bad depictions of a D/s dynamic imho
yes!! the consent thing was actually wild. like he was shouting “you have to verbally consent” and she literally did not verbally consent and they just went ahead with it and it was supposed to be sexy enough that we just pretended the desire was assumed.
i do think it was going for D/s because harris mentioned power exchange, but im glad it never said that out loud bc it would’ve been detrimental to D/s dynamics everywhere.
bamboozled is the perfect word. i don’t get it!!
That scene and the one in the car had alarm bells going off for me like crazy! Like, girl, get OUT!!! This is making me feel like I am obsessed with consent to an absurd degree but I really don't think I am?! Nonverbal consent is totally a thing and she seemed so uncomfortable to me - if my partner visibly appeared as uncomfortable and reluctant as Romy did in those moments I would absolutely back off and feel so guilty for pushing her. Ruined any of the potential eroticism for me. It's enthusiastic consent or nothing for me!
I find this so interesting because what made you believe they were trying to show a D/s dynamic? While power dynamics were at play obviously, nobody was claiming to want to be a dom or sub and I think that's why it was so murky. It felt like two people suddenly drawn to the dynamic without fully knowing much about it. Not everyone discovers kink with a playbook, or full confidence. Both of their naivity in sexual play are what made me feel comfortable and not question it as a bad d/s dynamic. He's clearly not an experienced Dom.
I wrote a reply to your comment but instead it showed up as its own comment and substack doesn't let me copy/paste 🥲
Couldn’t agree more!
Enjoyed this, thank you- it’s so tough to best Belle de Jour!
it blew me away!!
I definitely agree with wanting more with Babygirl. I left feeling lied to.
i learned about babygirl about 32 hours ago and immediately put it on my list. didn’t watch the trailer. then i stumble across your critique and realize Harris is in it… who i also loved from Murder at the end of the world. now i want to know your thoughts on ~that~ show and why you had to convince yourself “it was good”!
i did love that show, but ive realized it was mostly bc of the setting and bc of harris!! cant believe he brought that much life to a character named Bill 🤯
hahaha valid, valid!
I also had higher expectations. I'm not exactly sure what they were, but I was also let down. Why did they bother to bring up Romy's childhood? Her attempts at individual therapy (clearly they didn't bother with couples therapy)? I get not wanting to pathologize "kink" as aberrant, but it just annoyed me. So many questions and other details left something to be desired. I still enjoyed it, but much like Romy, I guess I'll have to seek satisfaction elsewhere.
omg the couple’s therapy point is a good one. the more i think about it, the more i realize this was for a fairly mainstream/not with it audience! the kind who doesn’t go to couple’s therapy and doesn’t communicate in the bedroom with their HUSBANDS. i hope those folks still see this movie, it will likely be impactful there!!
Yes the therapy portions and the scenes where it is showing footage of children playing and the references to the cult made me want more context for this but then at the end when she’s speaking to her husband saying “I thought it was my childhood but it’s not”- of course kinks and sexual proclivities don’t need to directly always stem from trauma or childhood but being raised in a cult most certainly would have an affect! I was also putting on my religion (minor in college) and cult hat and it felt like the flashbacks to the children and the cults felt like a children of god cult reference which is notoriously known for being hyper sexualized and abusing children? So many questions
Personally, I loved it! I understand your frustrations but as someone who identifies entirely with the main character, it was refreshing to see my reality and so many friends realities on screen.
Obviously none of us are heads of robotic companies, but, it's more about the archetypes and plot points that I think MANY women will identify with it. Also, while I do hope to see more empowering plots of female sexuality, identifying the shame is the first step in owning your desires so for those of us that are "behind" in sexual self-discovery, I think this movie is important.
Also important to ask who is this movie for? The desired audience, I assume, is mainstream-ish. Not sure they are ready for fully empowered women's sexuality where they're being pelted by manure lol. Anyways I'm inspired to write my own review but in the meantime...
Here are some plot points that are less common in mainstream media and I believe make this movie relatable.
1. Not getting off with your partner
2. Not enjoying sex with your provider-type loving hot partner
3. Trying to ask for what you want but them not wanting to play along (her with the sheet or pillow over her head)
4. Being allured by a nonchalant dude who isn't intimidated by you
5. Being surprised by your own desire for someone and a new dynamic
6. Learning with someone about your unknown sexual needs (imperfectly)
7. Being riddled with shame, unable to articulate your sexual desires (I think seeing it on screen will help people see how not ridiculous it is)
8. Her frustration with the intern being SO comfortable also being part of the attraction (many women walk around numb, getting them to feel anything even frustration can be erotic)
9. The awkwardness of kink IRL (it's not all contracts and perfectly scripted discussions)
10. Age gap romances aren't always about exploiting the naivety of the younger person. (especially if woman is older, I think women attracted to youth is for different reason then men)
Will go write my own lengthy review now but thanks for this! I love reading opposing opinions :)
love this list and i do agree, there were a bunch of moments!! but for me they needed more continuity between them and that’s what i wanted to come from one layer deeper into her character.
also great point re: identifying the shame being an important step!! and lmaooo ok i hear you on the manure
hahaha so fair!! One layer deeper would have been fun for sure!
Aburrida e innecesaria... Una película desechable pretenciosa que se perdió en la mitad
Dr. Amber and I had a great discussion using our shared experience of “Babygirl” as a lift off point. Interested to see where we aligned and diverged with you 💗 https://open.substack.com/pub/allyiseman/p/office-hours-the-good-girls-guide?r=41ciqv&utm_medium=ios
I am not a film-industry professional; however, here is also my take: https://boxd.it/8kawKJ
I am not a film-industry professional; however, this is also my hot take: https://boxd.it/8kawKJ
I think this movie and More by Molly Winter actively have the same overlap, but we only get first POV in More. I felt the movie could’ve given context especially when the male lead asked if he is a good person. There was so much lift to wandering around
I'll have to check it Belle de Jour, thanks for the rec!
Totally agree… I went to Babygirl today, and I felt a mixture of Eyes Wide Shut without the occult and 91/2Weeks without food porn. But enjoyable and good acting, even if at some moments you get a few moments of boredom.
hate to say it but 9 1/2 weeks didn’t do it for me either!! i do agree tho, definitely lots of upsides to babygirl too!